Company of Heroes Tournament Bracket

[Stevo Profile]

wtf i been banned from ts

Fuckin' right. We're all sick of "not" listening to you whine, piss and moan all the damn time. God, you're worse than Stevo.

Don't bring me into this...

[MediEval Profile]

I know it's part of the game, but what just happened is exactly why I didn't want to play in this tournament in the first place because I KNEW someone was going to do this, and I just KNEW it was going to be against me. What I'm talking about, is bum rushing a base within the first 5 minutes of the game. This happens all the damn time when you play in random 1 v 1 matches, and I hoped that none of us were going to play that way, but that's exactly what Maarek just did to me. Again, I know it's part of the game, but sorry, to me, that's a cheap way to get a win. Anyway, enjoy the second round.

[Maarek Stele Profile YIM]

I know it's part of the game, but what just happened is exactly why I didn't want to play in this tournament in the first place because I KNEW someone was going to do this, and I just KNEW it was going to be against me. What I'm talking about, is bum rushing a base within the first 5 minutes of the game. This happens all the damn time when you play in random 1 v 1 matches, and I hoped that none of us were going to play that way, but that's exactly what Maarek just did to me. Again, I know it's part of the game, but sorry, to me, that's a cheap way to get a win. Anyway, enjoy the second round.

I know it's the game and I didn't think it would work seeing that all my forces would have died @that 5 min mark. My intention was to get ahead on resources and distract you. I apologize for the base rush winning so cheaply.

Infact, I'll leave it up to Bielab or Rhino to ref and make the call.

There are counters to this type of assault which is building army units instead of specialty units. 2~3 squads will finish off the PE squads.

Replay URL: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9736589/2p_lang ... -46-36.rec

[Arctictiger Profile]

It looks like Maarek suffered more losses and but he also won with a marginal victory in the score. The victory point counter was still alive?? Was it just not worth playing?

[MediEval Profile]

He rushed me with 2-3 infantry squads & an MG car. I had a sniper that managed to get like 14 kills, but he took out my barracks and was able to reinforce what I killed quickly because his Kettengrad was able to run around the map and capture the points very quickly while I was kept busy at my base.

It's fairly easy for the PE to do early in the game. It was partially my own fault because I didn't prepare for it. We both had won as Germans, and he didn't do anything like that in the first two matches, so it caught me completely off guard. I was preparing to counter his infantry and he rolled in with the MG. I almost took it out but he was able to reinforce himself because he went in behind and capped all the points while I was defending. Then he rolled in with the heavy artillery and I ragequit

[Rafterman Profile Website]

The PE are notoriously weak in the beginning of the game because their infantry only have 3-man squads and no upgrades available other than the G43, which costs 50 ammo points and frankly, isn't that great if you ask me. Certainly, the G43 is no match for US Riflemen who are upgraded with BARs. The PGs can get MP44s and 'Shrecks later on, but only after other base buildings are constructed and subsequently upgraded, which costs LOTS of fuel to do.

Now, the Panzer Grenadiers have the slowest capture rate in the game, at something like 0.7, with the normal capture rate being 1.0. The Kettenkrad has a capture rate of about 1.25 though, so it is beneficial for the PE to use it exclusively for taking points and using the infantry to attack instead. Remember that the PE is primarily a mobile, attacking force. They can't build any defensive emplacements (unless the Scorched Earth or Luftwaffe doctrines are chosen), so all they have initially are their men and their light vehicles. Frankly, I'm not surprised you saw a base rush right at the beginning from a PE player. That's just how that faction works best. The PE can't sit back and form a defensive line because there's nothing to build for defensive structures. Does it suck when that happens? Of course, but that's part of the game and it's a totally acceptable technique. What could you have done? Well, I don't know what resources you had available to you, but a second sniper would have definitely helped. Since the PE just get 3-man squads in the beginning, having 2 men taken out by snipers in a split second would make it necessary for the player to retreat that 1 guy left over, instantly reducing his available attacking forces. In fact, knowing he has to face 2 snipers in the base might make him completely abandon the attack and retreat everyone to avoid more losses. How to counter the Scout Cars and Half-tracks? Get BAR and/or sticky grenade upgrades for your riflemen as soon as humanly possible. The PE's tier 2 vehicles are VERY lightly armored and BARs will do more damage than you think. Add in sticky grenades and the PE will be reeling from the losses.

The Axis have to face a similar situation when playing a British player who sends out a Bren Carrier in the beginning of the game to harass the infantry or a US player who makes a Jeep right away. At the very start, there is no Axis counter for a Bren or Jeep and they can be VERY annoying. However, as soon as you get a Wehrmacht Quarters up and make a motorcycle or MG42, the Bren will not be able to harass you so easily. Likewise, the PE can put 2 or 3 squads of G43-upgraded infantry onto a Bren or Jeep and they can do some damage. Get one squad in front to draw fire, then encircle it with the other squads. Plus, if you see a Bren in the beginning, you know that cost the Brit 280 manpower and 10 fuel to produce, so if you can blow it up, it will be a big hit to his initial resources.

I'm sorry you got shat on for that match. I know it sucks to lose like that. However, the game is VERY well balanced at this point in time and there really is a counter for everything. You just have to know what the best counter is, as well as where and when to employ it.

[MediEval Profile]

I knew the counters for it, but wasn't prepared. Didn't really expect him to do that. He brought his PG's in an MG car and got in a spot where my MG nests couldn't hit him. And my sniper was useless when they were in the vehicle.

If I had prepared for it, I could've stopped it, but like I said, he caught me off guard. I was preparing for a longer battle like we had before, and had used resources on my supply yard and tank depot instead of upgrading my infantry

[Rafterman Profile Website]

I had used resources on my supply yard and tank depot instead of upgrading my infantry

Yeah, you wouldn't need a tank depot until WAY later in the match. Even if he produced vehicles earlier than you, some AT guns from the motor pool could handle it until you could counter with vehicles of your own.

[Stevo Profile]

I watched the replay several times, and I find this very difficult to say (knowing that it will not be received correctly). Player names removed yielded this:

From Allies viewpoint only, at around the four minute mark the first battle ensued. The Allies entered into battle for an easy jeep kill of the Schwimwagon. The Allies were horribly unprepared for three PE squads and a halftrack. No early infantry had been built and the sniper was supporting the jeep by picking off stray Grenadiers. Once the jeep was destroyed, and the Engineers had retreated, where would I expect the Axis force to go? Directly into the Allied base to determine what troops were rallying or which Tech 2 buildings were being constructed (doubtful), if any.

At that point (around the 5 minute mark), the Axis was surely expecting infantry, which would have eliminated the Axis troops, IMO. No infantry had been generated. An MG had been generated at the beginning of that first battle, but without a rally point, and had been waiting for direction at the Support Center. It remained there until the PE troops arrived in the Allied base.

Prior to the Axis arriving, the Allies began building a Supply Yard, to tech up, leaving the MG unit undirected. However, NO infantry had yet to be called in... The result was chaotic building erection (here come the post quotes...), and finally loss of game.

In this replay, I saw the Allied player choose an early Sniper strategy, and provide no infantry (or engineer) support for the sniper. The Allied micro was not as good as the Axis micro (note the in-and-out of the halftrack), and the Allied build order was ineffective.

This IMHO, this was not cheese.



Further comments withheld pending goofy replies

[Bielab Profile]

MediEval, I am very sorry that the match ended like that. It is very frustrating to lose that quickly. Since you two were going into the match with one win a piece, I thought this match was going to be well balanced with either side having a good shot of winning.

While I am referee for this tournament, for the matches that I am involved playing in, I was not planning to make a ruling on them. It would not be fair for my opponent. Because of my relationship with Maarek, I am applying those same rules. It would not be fair to you. I don't want to show any type of favoritism here.

So if you would like a ruling on this match, I will present the facts of the match to an anarchic admin and have the ruling come from him. Just let me know.

FYI, I am not afraid of making a decision.... Down the road I will like to have another tournament, I just want to be fair as possible so other players will be willing to join up again.

[Stevo Profile]

Very generous, sir.
I, for one, applaud your offer (seriously).

Gamers. Community. Respect.

[MediEval Profile]

MediEval, I am very sorry that the match ended like that. It is very frustrating to lose that quickly. Since you two were going into the match with one win a piece, I thought this match was going to be well balanced with either side having a good shot of winning.

While I am referee for this tournament, for the matches that I am involved playing in, I was not planning to make a ruling on them. It would not be fair for my opponent. Because of my relationship with Maarek, I am applying those same rules. It would not be fair to you. I don't want to show any type of favoritism here.

So if you would like a ruling on this match, I will present the facts of the match to an anarchic admin and have the ruling come from him. Just let me know.

FYI, I am not afraid of making a decision.... Down the road I will like to have another tournament, I just want to be fair as possible so other players will be willing to join up again.

It makes no difference to me whether a ruling is made one way or another. And I don't say that in a pissed off manner. I lost. Just because I'm not happy with the way that I lost, does not mean Maarek did anything wrong. It's just not the way I play the game.

I thought this was going to be a well balanced match as well, which is why I was totally unprepared for his tactic. With him getting to be German again, and us both winning as German, I knew I already had my work cut out for me as we both struggled as the Americans. In the first match, I had gone Infantry and couldn't keep up with his Kettenkrad running around capping points, so I had to spend a lot of time trying to recapture those points, and he was eventually able to finish me off. This second time around I had decided to go Armor so I could counter his Kettenkrad with a Jeep that could capture points, and was going to counter his infantry with Snipers and MG's in a couple of the houses guarding the VP's until I could get some Tanks out. Like I said, he just caught me off guard and I couldn't recover. It's not a tactic many of us are fond of or used to, especially in the VP format, but because of the small map, it's definitely a viable one.

As for a ruling, I would feel bad if we had to play again and I ended up beating him as he ultimately DID beat me fair & square, but there's that other part of me JUST CAN'T LET IT GO so of course I'd want to play him again

In the end I'd say it should be up to Maarek, as he's the one who has to live with himself for what he's done (like how I tugged at his conscience there...hehe), but for future tournaments, I'd like to see bum rushes in the first 10 minutes or so or until a certain point threshold be outlawed

[MajorFullWood Profile Website]

Marty kicked my ass two games in a row. Not much to be said on my behalf, I sucked. Hats off to you, sir. Good luck in your future rounds.

[Stevo Profile]

I heard Marty had his blind grandmother play the second game...



GG Marty!

[Chevrolet Profile]

Marty, let me know when you want to play.

[MajorFullWood Profile Website]

I don't even know what happened. I had a great lead in the beginning of both games and he just trampled me in the middle to the end of the games. The second game, I think I had 500-390something and that's about what Marty finished with me at 0.

[Rafterman Profile Website]

for future tournaments, I'd like to see bum rushes in the first 10 minutes or so or until a certain point threshold be outlawed

Well, it would certainly be up to the "Tournament Director" as to whether or not this rule would be implemented, but if given a vote, I would definitely say that nothing should be outlawed if it's part of the game. Early rushes are part of the game. If the defending army is prepared, then the attacking army risks being seriously crippled by going in early. Maarek took a gamble and it paid off, nothing more. He could have also rushed in and suffered major losses if you were prepared for it. Notice I said "prepared" instead of "expecting" because you can't really have any expectations when playing another human. The CPU will always do the same thing, but humans are crafty and unpredictable. You can only prepare, not assume.

[Stevo Profile]

Am I crafty and unpredictable too?

[Chevrolet Profile]

but for future tournaments, I'd like to see bum rushes in the first 10 minutes or so or until a certain point threshold be outlawed

PE halftrack base rush is a legitimate strategy. All I see here is some sore loser action.

[Stevo Profile]

I believe we are trying to avoid the "Sore Loser" statements...

Perhaps the Axis player was strategically-deficient at that moment due to the extreme concern he had for the safety of our Olympians in London...?

[Bielab Profile]

Let's begin round 2 (if you haven't started already)

The rules will be the same as round 1. The round 2 map will be Angoville. Because a couple of the round 1 matches have ended later than anticipated, let's try to get round 2 completed by August 12th. If you guys can meet up sooner in the week and complete your matches, the quicker we can move on to the semis.


Maarek and MediEval - Your rubber game ended very abruptly. I need to move a player in the bracket for round 2. MediEval, I just need a clarification in your response. Are you requesting from Maarek an exhibition game for pride purposes or are you asking Maarek if he is willing to play your rubber game again to see who moves on in the bracket?? I need to know very soon. Thanks

[Chevrolet Profile]

or are you asking Maarek if he is willing to play your rubber game again to see who moves on in the bracket??

Uh, what?

[Bielab Profile]

or are you asking Maarek if he is willing to play your rubber game again to see who moves on in the bracket??

Uh, what?

You're right... I was a bit confused by MediEval's response..... their match will be for pride....

[Chevrolet Profile]

or are you asking Maarek if he is willing to play your rubber game again to see who moves on in the bracket??

Uh, what?

You're right... I was a bit confused by MediEval's response..... their match will be for pride....

Sounds good.

[Maarek Stele Profile YIM]

so of course I'd want to play him again

Bring it... Same map... pick your poison.

[Rafterman Profile Website]

Come on guys, let's get those games played! A match only takes 20 or 30 minutes of your time. Get to it!

[Bielab Profile]

Blazer and Tiger were able to get in their 2nd game late last evening. Maarek has been away and just came back... so I need to bring him to the table to play.

Chevy and Marty..... you guys have tentative plans to meet and play this weekend? I am making Sunday Tournament night for players who haven't completed their 2nd round games yet.

[Chevrolet Profile]

Marty, let me know when you want to play.

Marty, I will be around today, but not tomorrow.

[Bielab Profile]

We have 3 semi-finalist. Looking for the last semi-finalist. Could I make Tuesday or Wednesday Tournament night? I just need someone to advance in the bracket...... we are almost there. Otherwise I will move Chevy along since it looks like he has been making some attempts to coordinate play.

[Rafterman Profile Website]

Hey B, let's play our first game tonight. I'll aim to be on TS around 7 or 8pm.

I'll leave it up to you who plays Axis or Allies first. Your choice.